Soul SG 5

[boogalogist]

Okay. Now I have a slight change in schedule.

My date with my wife has shifted from 3pm to 1pm. As such, I wouldn't be able to join you guys this Saturday.

If my date finishes early, I might just make it. But I wouldn't count it...

I'll give some of you guys a call if I can make it.


Woot!! Version 1.03 is out in Japan!! At least, Namdai is patching the game.

[TaXi]

hey guys, it'd be great if we could all put in the link for the soul sg blog (soulsg.wordpress.com) in our signatures so we can spread the word

boogalogist: change is good i guess

edit: this has been bugging me for a while, but my (and sad's, and mich's) team name says "T (weird symbol)" instead of T3. this is because we used the small version of 3 (as in T to the power of 3). i'd be GRATEFUL if someone could change our team names to "T3" instead! thank you!!

edit2: dtarchon will be providing his xbox360 and 1 stick for this sat's session (thanks dtarchon!), but we'll be there later at about 7 because that's when he finishes work.

[Shen Rii]

So currently our setup is only:
1 PS3 + 1 Stick
1 360 + 1 Stick

We'll 1 more stick for each console. And if Whirow can come earlier, I'd rather he bring the console, then Dtarchon need not bring his. Then we'll need 2 more PS3 sticks.

Btw, those currently confirmed are:
Chan
Yu
Yuan
Taxi
Whirow
DTArchon

[TaXi]

whirow has offered to bring his console tmr, thank you whirow!!

oh and just as a disclaimer, i MAY not have the car tomorrow.

i think i can get batou to bring his projector, so we really need THREE consoles. so besides rein and batou, i'd still like to get dtarchon to bring his. even if i don't have a car, we'll share a cab so it's not a problem. btw batou's console is out because it's under repair.

[whirow]

*wondering when's the next console*

[Highlander]

sorry to ask this stupid question, how do you guys measure frame rates and adv or dis on hit for a move?

[dtarchon]

this will be pretty hard to explain.

Try reading up Twisted Jester's thread on frame data. Mitsu, NM and Yun's data are out.

The main idea here is to take a relative point of reference. From there we set up equations doing 2 moves at the fastest possible input(without error) after a move on block or hit.

We usually aim for a double hit to confirm impact/advantage data. Then we try out moves that is 1 frame faster or slower to see if it varies. Ideally we should do multiple crosschecks to see if the data is valid.

Kicks are usually best for confirmation as there is no clash or break.

It is not easy SETTING up the conditions to get the equation as there are variables like being forced crouched, variable impact frames and advantage, stance transitions and many other details to ensure the equation is valid.

That being said just try testing stuff yrself. Example.

A move is supposed to be -14 on block. Program CPU to attack with this move and guard. Then U on the receiving end IMMEDIATELY attack with an i14 and i15 move. You should have a hit and block respectively.

A move is supposed to be -1 on block. Program CPU to attack with this move and do a i13 move. 13+1=14. Then U on the receiving end guard, and IMMEDIATELY attack with an i13, i14 and i15 move. You should have a hit, double hit and loss respectively.

A move is supposed to be +1 on hit. Program CPU to attack with this move and do a i13 move. 13-1=12. Then U on the receiving end eat the first move, and IMMEDIATELY attack with an i11, i12 and i13 move. You should have a hit, double hit and loss respectively.

[Shen Yuan]

Highlander: heya! cool to see you interested in playing still. you could sms/pm me if you want to play with us.... Could always arrange something! My school is in the West yep.

Frame data should not dictate the way you play excessively. It should only be used to get an idea of the situation that you are in during a match. This is important as different things have to be expected from your opponent at different situations.

[TaXi]

hey guys, i'm thinking of holding an informal tourney in lieu of the next monthly session. at present we haven't discussed tourney rules yet, so i'd like to take this opportunity to get everyone's views on what tourney rules we should have.

here's a rudimentary set of rules that i feel will be useful for us. i'd like for us to create a standing set of rules based on discussion, so your input can and will affect these rules!

keep in mind that these are tourney rules for soul sg, so don't feel obliged to follow other countries' tourney rules. if you're concerned about differences in tourney rules between countries (eg. single elim vs double elim), do consider that we need to maintain our individuality as a community. i see singapore as a growing powerhouse in soul calibur, and i don't think it'd be a stretch for foreigners to come TO singapore to play us.

i'd also like everyone to be understanding if i maintain certain rules because of logistical issues (case in point: vader and yoda).

character selection rules

- no custom characters, including scheherazade, shura, ashlotte and angol fear (because of hitbox differences, size differences, etc)
- no vader/yoda (because they're console-exclusive)

note on vader and yoda: i can't see us including vader and yoda at the moment, because how would a yoda-only player fight a vader-only player? even if yoda and vader aren't used, we still need to take such scenarios into consideration. but if vader and yoda become available on both consoles, then we'd have to revisit this issue.

- everyone else allowed, including algol and apprentice
- customisation of the main cast is allowed

setting rules

- whatever the default time is
- whatever the default soul gauge is
- whatever the default lifebar is
- single player

note on single player: i welcome the idea of pairs/teams, but at present i'm not sure we have enough people at the moment.

- double elimination
- best of 5

a note on double elimination and the best of 5 settings: in soul sg we've traditionally stuck to these settings, and i strongly believe that they're a distinctive feature of soul sg that have shaped our gameplay.

here's some ambiguous issues i need everyone's input on

-would everyone be okay with using the 1.03 patch if it comes out in time for the tourney? would it give everyone enough time to react if it came out, say, a day before?

- should stage select be random, or would people prefer it SBO-style? SBO-style is where before the match there are two choices to be made: which side to play (1P or 2P), and which stage to choose. both players do a scissors-paper-stone, and the winner gets to decide one of the choices. the loser decides the remaining choice.

note on this: traditionally we've done random stage select, but i'm putting this into consideration because soul calibur is a game where the stage size and wall presence matters, and i think this is more true than ever in sc4. let me know what you guys think!

- can anyone think of a public venue in which we could hold the tourney? holding the tourneys at someone's home really brings down the tournament atmosphere. i think to give the tourney a competitive and professional feel, we should try to procure a public place to hold the tourney. someone mentioned to me that it might be possible to rent event rooms at community centres, which is a great idea (sorry i forgot, but thanks to whoever for the suggestion!). would everyone be willing to pay a nominal fee for renting a venue? and let me know if you have any other venue suggestions!

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this tourney will set a precedence for future tourneys in terms of rules, setting and format, so please contribute your ideas, thoughts and suggestions! and also, let's keep this discussion on cf.com because it's such a pain to have to check both forums. i'll be keeping track of all related posts in this thread and will tabulate the results of the discussion by the end of this month (september).

i see this as a first step for soul sg in sc4, so everyone can and should participate in the discussion and the actual tourney. hopefully we'll see some exciting discussion in the next few days!

[Shen Yuan]

Default time -> 45 or 50

Rationale: Time outs become a bigger factor. This means, that the time of a round becomes more important strategically. I feel in tournies its appropriate to make some things viable as far as strategy is concerned. Plus, end game can become more exciting, as players try to make up for the difference in hp between each other.

Format: Doubles, single elimination.

We could have doubles for this tourney, then singles the next time... IT could keep alternating lol.

However, try to prevent these guys from pairing with each other: Yuan, Chan, Ou, Rii, Yu, Taxi, Mich, Archon + others (I can't remember everyone >_<)... so yeah add to the list

Rationale: This way the more experienced players can help point out the difference between tourney and casual play Single elim because double elim might take tooo long which means we have to reach the place for the session way earlier... The single elim should end at around an hour... which also means more time for casuals... At the same time, matches become more important, and the tiny factors that determine victory are really intricate.

I will be ready to adapt to v 1.03

I am for the SBO style where there can be stage select. I feel that stage select REALLY matters and it can definitely change the way a match should be played... I would be on a field trip if people randomed a small stage with no ring edge

To everyone: I agree with tax. At this stage, Singapore can be really really powerful in SC. this time we have better knowledge and experience. Many of the good players have developed a lot in their thinking and I've been really happy to witness and enjoy it. On a more personal note, players like Aheda, Tax, Farp, Rii, Jovian, Archon + others, have made me really happy when it comes to the game... and have become very nice companions too. Hence I hope that with further development, all players here who put in time,effort,blood,sweat,tears and any thinkable bodily gas or fluid into their game can have a bigger presence in the world stage.

This matters alot to me (And probably to quite a no. of other people in the gaming community), because we want to see gaming turn into something BIGGER here. It kinda sucks to play a game and learn so much about life/the game/people from it and don't have some kind of 'legacy'...

These are a bit of my personal opinions. Its okay to disagree... but yeah no opinion of a person will be fully agreed with by everybody. so yeah...

[Shen Chan]

Pairs Tourney is much more appropriate at this point of time imo. Of course, certain combination is ban. So people who are still learning the game can pair up with the better players and hopefully learn more. (:

[Shen Yu]

If we're going to rent an event room in a CC or something like that, I propose we also try ask the members of other communities if they want to join in. Like we can have SC/GG/MB/AHF tournies or something like that. It'd essentially be a miniature FG convention. If it's successful, perhaps we can start thinking of bigger things.

[Shen Rii]

Time: Default (60s)
Rounds: Default (FT3)
Soul Gauge: Default
Health: Default

-Chances are the whole world will be using this, so no point in changing it.
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Stage Select: Japanese Style
Version: The latest one

Rationale - Promotes Tactical play
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Characters: Ban Bonus, CAS, Yoda and Vader.

Rationale - Bonus has hitbox issues, CAS are just too time consuming to do on the spot, Yoda and Vader are exclusive.
---------------------------------------------

No. Of Character/Player: 2
Tourney Format: Pairs, Single Elim

Rationale - For matchup purposes and variety.
-----------------------------------------------

An idea I had was to have monthly stage theme tournies. Like this month it will be the See-Saw stage, people will get to plan their strats revolving around this stage.
After all, ancient gladitorial fights were all in one coloseum.

[boogalogist]

This sounds great!! I'm all for this..



..I need more offline practice!!!

[Shen Ou]

Time Limit : 50

I've been playing on 40 seconds since launch, and most of the time due to throw animations or long strings/combos (You're talking about an Xbox that sees shitloads of Asta/Kilik vs Hilde). Matches end very frequently due to timeouts. A little too frequent for my comfort zone. I doubt we should jump the gun on extending to 60 as most of our community, casual or competitive, prefer having that extra kick to push the players to move. So my call now is 50.

Rounds/Soul Gauge/Health at Default.

Stage Select : Japanese Style, players may choose random if they prefer to not have that "advantage".
Version: ATM, Let's not bother about this.

Everything else I agree with Rein.

Also, with what Farp brought up, I've been thinking about it for awhile and I have shared with some of you before. Was supposed to bring it up during the last session but I got too caught up in destroying the Cass-Fiesta. Let's just codename it "Valhalla" for now. (<3 Raymus for the name. Its awesome, and uncles can't pronounce it!)

Basically, its a rented out hall (I'm thinking of Community Centers, Condominium Function Rooms or even Electronic Stores) with consoles and joysticks brought it voluntarily. Any FG, at request, can be run on a console. We'll have a website advertising it and give enough time for hype to build up. The whole event will be open house with an entrance fee.

Our target is to have the hardcore gaming communities come in and enjoy their game, while those fighting game fans and enthusiasts can come, watch, learn and play casuals. Encourage fellowship between gamers etc.etc.

Honor Matches (Police-Evasive Money Matches :P), Grudge Matches, Time Attack/Survival Challenge etc. on a stage to entertain casual players who aren't playing at the moment etc. Entrance Fee will also be somewhat steep for walk-ins (pre-registration available) to reduce the odds of having destructive random people around (as well as freeloading kids). At the same time, BYOC (controllers) is encouraged so that any damage done can be handled without our involvement.

We'll do it bi-monthly or tri-monthly. Maybe get help from game-stores as the event easily extends the life of fighting games for casual players indefinitely. If we get popular, we might be able to get some companies to make it into a more worthwhile event. If we don't, then all proceeds will head to a fund which basically provides relief for any losses made during the event (damaged console, stolen game etc.).

That's the general idea I have for "Project Valhalla". But that will take time. I hope to get it up by January. Meantime. OUR TOURNEY! :P

[whirow]

wow, sounds like we're going for something really big scaled~

[dtarchon]

Time - Default
Gauge - Default
Lifebar - Default
Rounds - 1st to Three Points
Win 3 rounds to clinch a win over your opponent.

Singles Double Elim
Stage Select - Random

Unlimited character choice for every round.

Ban infinites and GAME-BREAKING player-initiated glitches(should we happen to find one later).

Ban Bonus, CAS, Yoda and Darth chars.

Might be a good idea to record the quarter/semi/finals. Good for publicity and learning

TV Setup - Try not to have lag..

Timing - This truly sucks. I would prefer it on a Friday/Saturday Night or Sunday Afternoon.

Showcase the best of Singapore Gaming and our competitiveness.

[TaXi]

thanks to everyone for your ideas! i'd like for more members of the community to post their thoughts and suggestions before i do a preliminary summary at the end of this week. but i'd just like to address an issue that's been mentioned.

with regards to a combined event with other gaming communities, i have to say that it is really not our focus at the moment. at present, what i think we all need at the moment is to consolidate and build up our own community (through the blog, events, etc).

a combined event/website for multiple gaming communities will not only require a huge amount of time and effort, but also in-depth knowledge of these other communities, not to mention mutual cooperation with the relevant contacts. besides all of these (which i am doubtful we have), we will also require people to commit to this on a long-term basis (a year? 2 years?). even if you believe that we have everything we need, do keep in mind that soul sg is basically beginning from square one, and all efforts really need to be focused on ourselves.

i do believe that given time, this will be achievable. just not by next january, and maybe not even by this time next year. i think soul sg needs 6 months at the very least to take off again, and within this period, we need to focus on soul sg.

nonetheless, please keep alll these ideas in mind, and continue building contacts/information within and outside of soul sg, so that when we are ready, we'll have everything we need.

now back to the tourney discussion!

[whirow]

i was thinking why not do it the old fashion way to attract the 1st batch of people? Remember how we formed up Soul Singapore in the 1st place? we need some sort of publicity stunt or something.

I'll suggest double elim for the 1st tourney, and once we've built a considerable of people, we'll go with the SBO style of "more serious" tournements.

alternatively, we can make an open tournement, and a exhibitional single elim to show how the actual tournements work. that way new comers won't shun the sight of our top players.

[Shen Ou]

TaXi: I think you might have misunderstood me.
My concept of "Valhalla" is no way a competitive major tourney or what not. Its just an organized "Fighting game day" for local fighting game players. A time-span of 3 months is more than enough to kick this off IMO, maybe 6 but considering you said you didn't expect it to be possible this time next year, I'm presuming you mean a competitive event. I'm thinking more of just getting people who play Fighting Games together, let general gaming communities and younger gamers know that there IS a FG community and then, only then, do we worry about seeding out the potential competitive players.. But that's not our focus so we'll leave it at that.

[Shen Yu]

The way I see it, the entire FG community in Singapore could use a kick in the pants. Almost all of it is either splintered or dying. (Save Tekken and KoF. But that's because they're Tekken and KoF. Lol.) However, there is a decent amount of us. And I think that if we can stage an event for all of us and show the public a good turnout that it would be far more beneficial to the FG scene in general than if just one community tries to go it alone and ends up having a middling turnout. People are attracted by numbers. And variety is always good.

I also think it'd be a good opportunity for people of different communities to network. It might also be a good time for us to clear common misconceptions about each others games. "LOL 3D GAMES SUCK." "2D GAMES ARE TOO HAAAARRD" etc.

The format doesn't have to have us manage the other games either. It'd be more up to each individual community to organise their own tourney. (ie. Bring your own consoles and TVs.) Or if they want, to just mess around in their game of choice. And I don't think they should expect any more of us. We'd just be organising the event.

If the cost is reasonable, I can't imagine anyone in the FG community would turn down the chance to play their game and hang out with everyone else. They already don't get to play with each other very much as it is. And having more people on board would also help us recoup the costs for renting an area.

Of course, the logistics for it if too many people decide they want to join in might be a little difficult to manage but I think we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

[shibuyume]

i think you guys will also need some lame sponsors and some form of ranking to make people develop more extreme hatred for each other.

also, why not consider live streaming of matches thru p2p tv. LOL, make it kinda global and fun in a cheap way broadcast yourself!

[TaXi]

aheda, farp: thanks for clarifying some of my errors! i'd like to move this discussion to msn or PMs so we don't derail the discussion on tourney rules.

everyone: please continue the discussion on tourney rules! what we will definitely have next month is a tourney for soul sg, so let's get ready for that

[Shen Yuan]

Farp's idea is cool! Farp is smart! I like farp! Eat farp!

Why not we do this discussion in the 8wr usergroup or smth. It sounds dang workable to me.

Aheda: When did I come up with 'Valhalla'? IT sounds too cool to have come from me.

Taxi: Thanks for stimulating discussion over the tourney. Oh yeah 1.03 is OUT for the 360 already... I believe it would be out on the PS3 soon. So nothing much to ban

Whirow: A single elimination tourney ends very quickly. So if people do not want to take part, they won't be left out for a long time. In fact people who are not keen on the tourney are not obliged to join IMO. So they can watch it end... really fast. Then play in casuals that would happen after the tourney. I believe this way, newcomers will not be alienated... So hence my idea is like.. one hour of somewhat more intense matches then the rest of the time for casuals!

yeah so i pretty much agree with your idea of a single elim exhibition... just that the special quality is the time IMO

[whirow]

what about msn conference or something?? easier to communicate or something like that~ or Xfire~!~!